Like David, I couldn't get this out of my head, so I played with the 2nd floor last night while waiting for the ball to drop. for a developer, it's all about the master suite. To pick up the extra space over the garage, the master has to go on that side. His/her closets, compartmentalized w.c. big shower and tub are all requirements. Better think about where the optional f.p. is going, and be sure that there are no roof structure issues with providing volume in both the bedroom area (tray ceiling) and bath area (slope with skylite).
I usually try to place closets as sound buffers between bedrooms. Need linen storage both in the hall and master bath. I wanted to provide a desk area on this level to make up for the deleted 1st floor study. The way things worked out, I can easily get another set of stairs up to an optional attic area. with some dormers in my elevation, I can keep the stairwell open and spill light down through the second floor into the foyer. That should give the buyers something to think about. Gets my s.f. out of whack, but what the heck, mortgages are at an all time low. You may as well take the optional space behind the master bath. It it were me, I'd put the laundry in there and just let the mud room be a nice back hall entry, with beadboard, cubbies, benches, etc.- figure 10x12 for the closet, 40x12 in the attic- less the stairwell-maybe 400s.f.- I'd be up to 2770 s.f. total- The attic would kill my tray ceiling in the master- but I'd still vault the bath. We'll do 9' second floors- so I could still do a perimeter drop in the master for a little extra sex.
Hey Thomas, your plans got some nice things going on. I've got a couple of thoughts, take them or leave them as you please.
ReplyDelete1) Not sure what is typical for the area at the s.f. range you're in, but a 13'-6" wide family room seems REALLY narrow to me, with a lot of space in the stair hall/ foyer. Seems a bit disproportionate to me. Are you going for a symmetrical elevation? Looks like that might cause problems if it forces that room that narrow.
2) Kitchen seems quite separated from other living areas. Not necessarily a no-no. I wonder if swapping the Flex space and the Kitchen and actually making that space to the right a formal dining improves things? Maybe not, I know you're trying to keep the axis thru that space to the back yard view, and looking directly into the kitchen is odd. But if you did switch, it then puts the kitchen in a good location for opening it somewhat to the family, if so desired. Plans in your region may prefer living spaces more separated though.
3) The offset at the back of the Family Room from the 1st to 2nd floor bugs me. I guess your trying to keep that room (downstairs) from being too long? I see you need the space upstairs. Seems like it would look odd from the outside. My thought would be (if the kitchen did move) to align the 1st and 2nd floors, and maybe put an archway (a big one, more for definition than anything else) dividing the family room with a "flex" space at the back. Rooms might be getting a bit tight then though.
4) Only issue with upstairs is that it would be nice to get some natural light in the 2 story foyer at the 2nd floor. If only that bath could move somewhere else, and you could put the desk at the front with windows over/ beside it. The only real thing I could think to do here would be to reconfigure the staircase to something more economical to get back more usable space, but then you might looks some of the "sex" appeal.
All in all fairly nitpicky stuff. Take it with a grain of salt and keep going!
Thanks for the comments, Chris, much appreciated.
ReplyDelete1) not too concerned about the elevation at this point. I posted 3 which would fit, the symmetry doesn't hurt in that regard. The real bus driver here is the framing simplicity. If I can hold 13-2 on my bearing length, I get my attic with 2x8's. If you check the market comps (provided) my 13' width is not a negative. (they show 16' less the staircase- so 13' is ok. Remember, this plan has some different attitudes about space going on. This living space is really divided into 2 zones- a tv and a desk space, so the width is not that critical. The living portion is actually more like 15x13, a nice shape.
2) Separating the rooms (liv and kitch) is not common in this area. I happen to like it, but I'm an old-time sort of guy. I read an article once where the root of all modern societal ills was placed on the doorstep of open planning. I'm already sharing functions in the 2 main spaces, and provided wide openings, thats all you get from me here.
3) I like to protect my door openings, so the overhang is ok by me. Also- I know I want to offset the patio door to one side to give me a furniture corner in the great room, and the windows upstairs will work in the center of the wall space. The vertical offset will minimize the imbalance. You're right, I didn't need the s.f. in the living area, so I didn't add it. because I'm framed side to side I can't cantilever, but the stub wall will minimize the distraction on the side el. This will be wrapped with stone, and provide a way to transition siding materials if desired.
4) Yes, my initial thinking was to put the library over the front door and squeeze the bath in between the 2 back bedrooms- borrowing space from the master if needed. Didn't work. Just not enough room. Went to this by default. There is colonial precedent for it however, as the small room to the front of a colonial centerhall was often used as a clothes storage or dressing room.
I've worked out the plans on the computer now, and am only disturbed by the size of the kitchen. I really wanted that to be big enough to put a real table in, so the flex room could be used legitimately as a living space. I may wind up adding 2' to the front of my plan and adding a cantilevered bay over my walk-up basement entry. That would give me a 15x11 dining table space, which is adequate.
Thomas:
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the time to respond to my comments, you've obviously put a lot of time and thought into your design.
1) I must admit, I was surprised to see that the limiting factor on the width of the family room was 2 x 8 floor joists. I can't imagine going from 2 x 8 to 2 x 12 would add that much more to the cost, but I know that you've got a specific agenda that you are exploring here, so I certainly won't argue the point. I can tell you that even in homes under the 200k mark here in DFW, a 13' wide family room just wouldn't fly. But that just been my experience locally, and is probably not consistent throughout the country.
2) I also prefer not to open things up on the floor plan as much as my local competitors do (although my designs are much more open more than they were in colonial times for sure). So I don't think it's a mistake to swerve one way when everyone else goes another. I find the reasoning behind opening up the kitchen to the family is so that mom can be in the kitchen and watch the kids. In reality as to how much people actually use rooms that way functionality wise, I cannot say. Many times people think they live one way (from a functional point), when in fact they don't.
3) The overhang itself doesn't bothers me; it's than the wing wall, which is obviously needed for support. Massing wise, i just don't see that wing wall being an attractive feature, but maybe you have something in mind I cannot envision.
Despite my comments, I do feel that your design is coming along nicely, and my purpose is only to help provide another perspective that you can use or disregard in your design process. Keep up the good work Thomas!
Chris,
ReplyDeleteMake no mistake, I enjoy getting your comments and critiques. We'll never learn anything otherwise. I have admired the work you have posted on this site and respect your opinions.
First of all, I took your overhang comment to heart and pushed out the l.r. in a later update.
Second, I'm as surprised as anyone to see how traditional this plan wound up being. As I stated in my post, I have adapted it to fit my furniture, and I need space for a baby grand and a 7' dining table. It's probably a good discipline to design for these items in nearly any house.
Third, using 2x8 was not a design goal. but low square footage was. Cheap and strong floors are really just an extra bonus. Because my framing is side to side and my rafters are front to back I'm going to need flush beams under the attic knee walls to prevent rafter thrust. The shorter spans help here as well. I would love to add 2' to each of the 3 bays to give a little breathing room to the plan (and center the archway to the dining room for David), but the exercise here is not to see how nice you can make it, but to see how small you can make it and still have it work for furniture placement and intended use. Also remember I started this exercise by going to my most successful competitors and seeing what I had to have to be competitive. (see the early posts) That told me that 13' plus or minus would be accepted.
I really think the design has turned out nicely, and I am honored that you'd give my feedback such careful consideration. In the end I hope that it either helped provide new thoughts or solidified the reasoning behind what you hoped to accomplish with the design.
ReplyDeleteI think the end result of your effort is something you can be proud of! The house seems very livable to me, even if it is different from what I would design personally. I've spoken my piece about room sizes and I think you've more than justified your reasoning behind designing it as you have. In the end, a house is a very subjective thing. I think you've done very well.